Angie 00:00 Good Monday morning, everybody. This is Angie Callen, and welcome back to No More Mondays — the podcast where we believe you can have a thriving career, business, and life on your terms. This episode is brought to you by The Modern Coach — my place where I am making sure that humans still matter. If you are ready to build a business, career, or life around your values, head on over to themoderncoach.co/corevalues so you can lean into what matters most to you. Enough about me — it is time to introduce today’s guest. Mike Kim is a best-selling author, brand strategist, and speaker who has helped entrepreneurs and executives show up, stand out, and succeed by leading with who they are, not just what they do. This guy knows a thing or two about values-aligned work. He somehow turned a marketing budget handoff into a career, a podcast into a platform, and has taken his own personal story and turned it into something we can not only learn from, but laugh at, relate to, and remember. Whether you are a solopreneur, a sales pro, or a leader wondering how the heck to make yourself and your message stand out — this conversation is about to hit home. Mike Kim, welcome to No More Mondays.

Mike 01:08 Thank you for having me. That was the best intro I’ve ever heard — thank you. It’s a pleasure to be here. And it is possible — I love Mondays. I do.

Angie 01:18 Tell me. Let’s just start there. Tell me why.

Mike 01:21 I love the work that I do, and I think that evolves over time. I used to hate Mondays like a lot of people. But now that I do what I do, I love the impact it has for people. And I think it’s because it requires the best of me. I’ve been on my own now for about ten years in my business. And what’s interesting, Angie, is I can never mail it in on any given day when you run your own business. I don’t have water cooler talk with anybody — I work from home, and there’s not a lot of wasted time. I’m always repurposing something or creating something. I sort of want to work all the time. But at my age, I’ve learned to slow down over the weekends, and then if I actually do, I’m out the gate on Monday hitting it really, really hard. I have a very project-based life, and a lot of creative projects — so I like getting them done. The sooner I get to it, the closer it’ll be to being done. That’s kind of where all that stems from.

Angie 02:05 I love that within your first three words you knocked it out of the park. This could be a four-minute episode — Mike Kim loves Mondays, have a great week everybody. But that is the essence of this podcast. It’s the idea of integrating what you do for work with who you are in life, so that you don’t think about the day of the week. And I know for you, you’re pretty open about some of the background that’s shaped you — the tensions, the harder things that have gotten you where you are today. I told Mike before we came on — I love good, dry, snarky, vulnerable humor. I’d love to hear a little more about how your journey has influenced you to get to this point of actually loving Mondays.

Mike 02:45 Before I started my business, the last job I had — I’ve been an entrepreneur for about ten years, as I mentioned — but before that, I was the CMO of an educational company here in the New York/New Jersey area. I loved my team, I loved my bosses, and I did not like the work. It was a weird combination, and I think it’s because I didn’t necessarily believe in the mission of the business. I believe in education, but I was lousy in school — so for me to work at an educational company felt very misaligned. I loved the marketing, I loved the writing, but I felt like there were other things I’d always been thinking about and chewing on. I’ve always loved reading books, loved seeing how the world works, been fascinated by how people think. When I stumbled into marketing, it was perfect — you have a blend of creativity and psychology, there are clear measurables, but also a lot of nuance. So I stumbled into the right thing. And yet at that time, when I started my business, I was married, we had no idea what we were doing with our lives — my ex-wife was in school, running for med school, and I felt like I had to hold down the fort. I was in my 30s and thought: I guess this is the right thing to do. But God forbid I just live the rest of my life this way — I just did not feel very alive. I remember a lot of those days. And then everything changed one Thanksgiving. We were hosting for the first time — my mom came down with her husband, my stepdad, and my sister with her then-fiancé, now husband. I was up all night after Thanksgiving dinner throwing back shots with my mom — the first time we’d ever done that. She’s telling me all these crazy stories. I thought I got the drinking gene from my dad. Turns out it was my mom — she just did a really good job of hiding it. I had the best time. Then I checked my email before bed: we need you to come into work tomorrow. And again — educational company. We’re not open on Black Friday. We’re not a retail company.

Angie 04:25 Marketing, while critical, isn’t going to burn down on Black Friday.

Mike 04:29 We can take the day off. I remember driving up — and of course I went — thinking: this really ticks me off. I love my boss, I love everybody there. But this is not how I want to live my life. What if something happens to my mom? This might be the last time we ever get to throw back shots. I have way more questions now than answers.

Angie 04:50 More to do with mom than go to work on Black Friday.

Mike 04:53 Exactly. So it started me questioning things on a much deeper level — not just how am I going to make money, how are we going to pay the mortgage, when are we going on vacation. Those are the questions that generally dominated my thought life. When that happened, it was like opening Pandora’s box, and I really started picking up every rock to see what was under it. And it led me to this place where I thought: okay, this is a great job, I’m making really good money — and two things can be true at the same time — I don’t think I want to be here that long. So I really started taking steps toward finding that freedom and that margin.

Angie 05:30 I’m going to share a little backstory for all of you out there — Mike and I kind of crossed paths through Justin Schenck’s world. The world of entrepreneurship, authors, speakers, and podcasters is very, very small. But the backstory I haven’t shared for a while — and Mike, you don’t know this about me — is that I used to be an engineer. What you described about loving marketing and loving the people but not what you were marketing resonates very heavily. Loving the communications aspect of engineering — whoever says that, right? Loving everything that wasn’t actually the work. And for me, there was also a precipitating event — moving to Colorado — that started to open that Pandora’s box. Shots with your mom was yours. This is where I love the level of vulnerability we can talk about around the things that made us realize what was misaligned so we could get aligned. How did you lean into Pandora’s box once it was open?

Mike 06:25 It started with blogging. I just wanted to share what I knew. I missed having a creative outlet. In a prior life I did a lot of music, and that was no longer something I was doing. So I missed that outlet. I thought: let me try this blog thing. I’d had some sporadic writings before but hadn’t branded anything. After a few weeks I realized: nobody is reading this — not even my mom. So maybe I should learn how to do this well. I didn’t ever think it would turn into a business. This is like 2013 — I Googled “how to blog” and came across this guy Michael Hyatt. I’d never heard of him before, but he had really good SEO and really good content around blogging. I saw he was a former CEO of Thomas Nelson. He had great content, so I joined one of his memberships and I did the work. I was like: okay, I’m getting better at this. And he noticed — he’d start to mention how this guy Mike in his community is really doing the work. And I realized not a lot of other people were doing the work. In essence, Angie, it was really about exercising this muscle of self-expression. And that atrophies so badly for most of us. Now, in retrospect, when I look at the clients I’ve worked with over the years, the people who typically have the hardest time writing, creating, doing anything around their own business — they usually come from really regimented or regulated backgrounds. You mentioned engineering. Also education, the military, law, finance, nonprofits — none of those industries reward you for thinking outside the box. You get slapped on the wrist or fined by regulatory or compliance. These are heavy words for all those people. And yet those are typically the most educated people — you need multiple degrees to do some of that work. What a terrible paradox. We’re not hearing from those people — and instead hearing from people who dance on TikTok and are making stuff up they found on ChatGPT. So you see this big paradox, and that’s why I think I gravitated subconsciously toward trying to help people express themselves and share their ideas — and helping them realize they had wisdom worth sharing. That’s really where it started.

Angie 08:25 And there’s something you said that I think is really important. There’s a difference between influencers who want to influence for the sake of having influence over people — versus wanting to serve very different people. What we’re talking about here is the latter: taking your gifts, skills, and knowledge and putting them in service to others. What you pointed out is so interesting — because the regulatory stuff, the traditional careers you rattled off — those were the options when we went to college. Now the world has changed, and we have this ability to get more creative about how we use our knowledge to serve others. And I feel like that is the paradigm shift you realized during shots with mom.

Mike 09:10 Yeah — and I wish I could say I knew it at the time, but I didn’t. I was just in a present negative trying to move to a future positive. But I just did what was right in front of me. That guy Michael Hyatt was a great mentor and great teacher — the membership was like $30 a month, and I got way more out of it than I paid. I did the work. And I started to realize: what’s different is I’m taking action and putting my stuff out there.

Angie 09:38 Not grandiose action — fairly small. But you began working a muscle. You at least went to the gym.

Mike 09:44 Yeah. And when you take the time to curate what you’re thinking about and do it to the best of your ability — I read those blog posts from 2013 now and I’m like: oh this is terrible. Or: I’d write this very differently now. But one of the things I always say when I’m helping people write their books these days — you cannot un-become the person who writes your book. You cannot un-become the person who writes that speech or that post or shares that personal story. That clarity stays with you, because you worked for it. So I view it less as an output and more as a transformative process.

Angie 10:18 I completely agree with the transformation — because you know too much to ever be the person you were before whatever the it was. And this is the perfect opportunity to talk about the economy of meaning — something you discuss in the book that I absolutely love. The idea that it’s maybe our new currency, that instead of titles being what we always looked at, now we’re thinking about trust, connection, and the economy of meaning that can only come from this kind of transformation. Tell me more about that.

Mike 10:50 Yeah. I’ve spent the last several years coaching, guiding, and advising people in this muscle of self-expression. And when I think about what I’m really hearing from people — what’s behind “I want to be on stages” and “I want to speak” and “I want to write a book” — what they’re really looking for is meaning. They want to know that what they’re doing matters. And I started thinking about this in terms of economies — broad brush strokes. You have the industrial economy, when human beings would just make physical things. Then it transitions into the knowledge economy — for Xennials, right? Education is the path. I’m Asian, so growing up: you will be a lawyer or a doctor, go to a good school, make money, and do not shame the family name. That was my whole generation. That was peak expression, because my parents grew up in the aftermath of war — this was a quantum leap ahead for them.

Angie 11:50 The word entrepreneur is not in the dictionary, and if it is, it’s in the locked-off section of the library protected by a monster.

Mike 11:58 Exactly — go work for a company, go for stability. Then the digital economy comes along because of the internet, and people start sharing their knowledge in a new way. No gatekeepers — people are blogging, podcasting, doing all these things. That’s right around when I started my business about ten years ago. I’d get a lot of traction just sharing a piece of knowledge on Facebook. Then we went into the Creator economy, and Instagram came along, and now I had to take pictures and edit videos. I still want to share the same knowledge — but sharing it has become more visual, more auditory, with an element of entertainment. And because of that, we’re now in the attention economy — short form content, infinite scroll. I’ve been thinking: where does it go from here? We have this abundance of content and a poverty of orientation. We don’t know what we want. It’s all noise, no signal. All consumption, less understanding — people just getting dumber and dumber.

Angie 13:05 Classic example of too many options rendering us down to no choice — at the nth degree. Now with how much we can consume if we allow ourselves.

Mike 13:15 And what does money even mean anymore? When you hear players making $120 million for two years on a basketball team. When ChatGPT/OpenAI is reportedly losing $86 million a day. Six figures is like survival now — barely.

Angie 13:32 It’s like your minimum level of earning now.

Mike 13:35 It’s crazy. Some of these younger people making gobs of money through AI, Only Fans — ridiculous ways, ridiculous amounts. What does that even mean anymore? When that metric no longer matters — which I think we’re getting to — people are tossing around this idea of universal basic income. We saw a precursor during COVID when the government was handing out checks. What does that money mean? What does that mean when the metrics we’ve been using for a long time are no longer helpful?

Angie 14:05 What’s going to replace it — which is this economy of meaning. Because we also know money doesn’t buy happiness, and now that people have all of this money, they’re still going to seek happiness through alternative means. And let’s hope it’s this idea of wanting to have impact. So the I in ROI can stand for different things — it doesn’t have to necessarily be a monetary investment. It could be the return on the impact you want to have. And this goes back to what you were mentioning about the shift in the professional landscape. I see it too as somebody who worked specifically in the career coaching space for the first six or seven years of my business. People seem to now have a little bit of an awakening around the fact that maybe the economy is based in meaning — or they’re early adopters of this idea that I can do something more intentional with the professional component of my life, and maybe it can actually integrate into who I am. It sounds like you’re observing that too.

Mike 14:55 I mean — this is nothing really revolutionary. I think we’ve all known, at least intellectually, that life isn’t just about money. It’s a composite of relationships, health, money’s a part of it, but also friendships, legacy. That’s one of the things I love about people in the workforce who are much younger than me. I have a friend named Ashley — she’s 25, which feels weird to say at 47, but we’re friends through social media and the community. She just left her corporate job — a company that everyone in our world would know — to go create content, travel, and live her life. I met her boss at a speaking engagement, and I was like: I gotta talk to her, because she’s about to hand in her resignation. She discovered what took me decades — I want to travel, I want to do work I love, and I have a great corporate job, and I don’t want that. She came to this realization two decades earlier than I did. So that’s awesome that they’re asking those questions. And I think for people in my generation, they’re just like: am I late? And I’m like: no, you’re not late.

Angie 16:05 They’re finally waking up. I literally said this to a client who’s 46. I was like: you’re having an awakening — an awakening to the fact that society supports more than the traditional in-the-box corporate ladder you’ve always stuck yourself in.

Mike 16:20 Yeah. And for people in my industry — I try to challenge them a lot, because up till now we’ve been able to get away with: hey, I’m going to help you grow your business through an email funnel, or I’m going to help you make X amount as a speaker. But they never teach them how that fits into the rest of their life. And I think those days are numbered. People are going to want someone who’s more holistically grounded — who can say: I hit this accomplishment, that accomplishment, and it’s not as big a deal as you think. It’s important, but it fits into the overall ecosystem of your life. I’m still stumbling through trying to define it, but that’s what I feel pulled toward.

Angie 17:00 I like it. Something you mentioned made me think about the personal brand trend we’re living through right now. Even in the career space — resumes aren’t totally dying, but they’re evolving into the need for a personal brand. But from your perspective — how do we build a personal brand that feels authentic and not just buzzy in the sea of buzzy personal brands?

Mike 17:22 I think it’s best illustrated by two extremes. On one hand, you have people who literally rent out a mansion on Airbnb and a bunch of supercars, shoot videos, and imply it’s their house.

Angie 17:33 Not authentic, people. Not authentic.

Mike 17:35 And they think they are owed attention, and this is all it takes. Then you swing to the other side — which I saw come to pass a couple years ago, where authenticity was the buzzword, but they grabbed onto it by sharing all the dirt and the gnarly stuff and basically becoming gossipers. They’re getting attention the way a car wreck on the highway gets attention — traffic slows to a crawl and everyone’s looking, but it’s the wrong kind of attention. Instead of selling a solution, they’re selling struggles. That’s how they’re getting attention.

Angie 18:05 Vulnerability turning into overshare.

Mike 18:08 Yeah. And I think there’s a line between being authentic and being transparent. Transparent is reserved for a few people in your life. My audience knew ten years ago I was going through a divorce — they could tell. They’re not stupid. They’re like: huh, his wife’s not in his pictures anymore. I was authentic about: hey, I’m going through a lot of stuff right now. I’m going to keep showing up and adding value, but I might slow down. Transparent is telling everyone exactly what happened, XYZ, 123. No one needs that. So where I land is: ask yourself, when you’re showing up online, can you build a campfire around what you’re sharing? By that I mean — is it a light in a dark place? Is it inclusive, welcoming, warm? Can other people have a voice too, not just yourself? Around a campfire it’s not just a monologue. People talk.

Angie 19:00 Kumbaya happens once in a while.

Mike 19:02 Exactly. And I’ve been surprised at how people resonate with that illustration. Whether it’s LinkedIn, very Monday-and-professionally, or Instagram sharing a personal update — just ask yourself: is what I’m sharing something people can actually rally around? Or am I just talking at people? Am I marketing myself at people? One other example I’ll share — when my first book came out, I turned on my camera and recorded giving it to my mom. She hates being on video, but I’m her kid — it’s easier for me to ask for forgiveness than permission. I showed her the book, and she was like: oh wow, this is great. You were so bad in school and you had other talents. She was laughing. And I did it again just a few weeks ago when I went to see her for her birthday with the book I just put out with my friend Andy Storch. Mom, here’s round two. She goes: oh wow. And that’s what I’m talking about. There’s a lot loaded into that video. There’s a lot of psychology. People are making very fast judgments — this guy likes his mom, his mom likes him, that says something about his character. She’s self-deprecating and humorous — that probably says something about him. He’s willing to post this. He didn’t do well in school — there might be hope for me. All of these things outside of: here’s a book to grow your business. There’s a lot of humanity in there. There’s meaning. That was a meaningful moment for her and for me, and in turn for the audience. And that’s sort of the economy of meaning.

Angie 20:40 So let’s give some people some advice. I agree there is a fine line between appropriate vulnerability and overshare — tactful transparency versus going way too far. How does somebody find the balance between overly brand-safe and stale on one side, and taking it too far on the other?

Mike 20:58 I think it depends on where they are and how comfortable they are with expressing themselves. If you’re coming out of one of those regulated backgrounds we talked about earlier — start with something safe. Share what books you’re learning from. Hey, here’s a book called The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel — great book, by the way — here are three things I learned from it. You have nothing to lose. There’s no risk. You’re not sharing personal stories, you’re not being super vulnerable. You’re signaling: I’m a learner. I like to read. And you’re openly sharing about a topic like money without giving away your numbers. That’s a great start. Or: hey, here’s a clip I saw from a Tony Robbins video, and here’s what I took away from it. You’re using other people’s content to signal what you’re interested in — there’s a lot of psychology there. As you gradually get more comfortable, you can share something you’ve learned, or a piece of advice you give to other people. One of the questions I love asking in interviews: what’s one piece of wisdom that’s been really valuable that someone shared with you? And then: what’s one piece of wisdom you find yourself giving to other people? That’s such an interesting question because people don’t really think about it. Or: what’s the best piece of advice you ever got — and then just share that with your followers on LinkedIn or Instagram or Facebook. It’s baby steps. And the more you do it, you get a quicker feedback loop. You realize the world did not end because you posted this online. You get more comfortable with your voice. And then you can start writing longer things or shooting videos. It’s a progression, just like everything else.

Angie 22:20 If there are coaches I’ve worked with listening right now, they’re like: Angie hired Mike to come in here and say that. Especially knowledge professionals — they tend to be perfectionists, high performers, high on the academic scale. So they worry people are going to think they look stupid. And I’m like: people have their heads so far up their own lives that even if you do look a little off, they’re not going to say anything — they’re just going to keep scrolling. And you’re not going to look stupid because you know what you’re talking about. So I love this idea of lowering the barrier of entry by sharing other content, commenting on other people’s content, easing into your voice. You don’t have to go from zero to six posts a day overnight. And it even goes back to your story — you started small. You just started writing. You just started leaning into what was important to you. The same applies if you’re trying to build visibility for the work that matters to you.

Mike 23:10 Yeah. And I think the reason knowledge-based people hesitate to share their knowledge is because they’re good thinkers. They’ve been trained to stress-test their ideas. So the way I get around that is: can you share an anecdote or a story? What’s one piece of advice that was really meaningful to you? And they share something. Then I ask a follow-up: where’d you hear that? Who taught you that? And they say: oh, my basketball coach, this mentor of mine. And they have a story. I say: why don’t we couple that story with the piece of advice you’re sharing? Now you have something that isn’t just knowledge — it’s wisdom. Something true for you, and you can leave it up to your readers and followers to decide whether they can apply it to their own life. They’re not dumb — they’re smart enough to figure that out. And you’re not saying this is the gospel. You’re saying: this happened to me, and this is what I took away from it. You don’t need research to validate that it happened to you. Just small steps, like you said.

Angie 24:05 Share your experience, because nobody can challenge your experience — it’s yours. And so I’m going to flip the script on you for a second here, Mike, and ask you what you ask everyone else: what is one piece of wisdom that’s been really valuable to you?

Mike 24:20 There’s a lot — some of it’s going to sound generic. But the lifelong journey I’ve been on, when I look back on my life, is this: reinventing yourself is completely normal. And endings are just as normal — if not more normal — than new beginnings. Where I learned that was an odd combination of a book and tomato plants. There’s this book called Necessary Endings by Henry Cloud — it’s in my top three of all time. He’s a psychologist, I believe. The book is all about endings — it’s really a business book, but it makes you comfortable with endings. He used an example about a rose bush. But at the time, I was married and my wife was growing tomato plants on her patio. I looked at that tomato plant and thought: why are you spending so much time on this? And then I realized — this plant can’t even carry its own fruit. You have to wrap the vine around things. It needs external help. And one of the tenets in the book was: we all create and bear so much fruit that we can’t sustain and carry it. That’s why you need to end things. The rose bush example was: a gardener will cut the bad buds and the good buds so that the greatest ones can grow and flourish. I grew up going to church and hearing Bible stories about pruning the tree — but I grew up in New Jersey. The only farm I knew was whatever was printed on the tomato can at the supermarket. I didn’t understand those analogies until I saw the tomato plant. And I’ve become a lot more comfortable with endings.

Angie 26:05 You just justified the 17 hours a day my husband spends in our backyard pruning the eight-foot tomato plants growing up a trellis that we built. You’ve got to cut off the dead ones so the energy goes to the live ones. And this stuff seems cliche, but I always say — and I’ve yet to be proven wrong — that clichés are clichés for a reason, typically because they’re true. Sometimes we like to rebuke these fundamental things — like “the journey is the destination” and “we never stop evolving.” But it is such a fundamental truth. If you forget it, you do shrivel up under the weight.

Mike 26:45 Yeah. High-achieving people are the worst at this — we’ll come up with ten new ideas and want them done tonight, and tomorrow we’ll have ten more. And you realize: even with a team of 1,000 people, I couldn’t do all of this. Another gardening analogy — we bought a house with no lawn because it was a new build, and I’ve always dreamed of a great lawn. So I look out there at all the torn-up construction mess and I hire a landscaper. I said: all right, I want this lawn in three weeks, like a golf course. He goes: we can’t do that. I’m like: why not? He said: you can’t water grass that doesn’t exist and expect it to grow in three weeks. You’ll have to wait until next season. And I think that’s what we do. We water things assuming it’ll make the grass grow faster. It doesn’t work that way. That’s just nature.

Angie 27:45 Kind of like if you water a cactus too much, you’ll kill it. The answer isn’t always more.

Mike 27:51 Absolutely. And when you think about it — if you can pause for a moment and ask: where’s all this urgency coming from? Why am I in this rush to create so many things? Is there fear underlying this? Is there a scarcity mindset? What has programmed me to be this way? Why do I always need to be doing something, putting something out there, monetizing every single thing? How much is enough? You really learn to slow down and sit with yourself. One of the best pieces of advice I’ve ever heard — I don’t know if it’s real or not, but it’s attributed to some ancient culture — life will teach you lessons, and those lessons will be repeated until they’re learned. And you just keep going around and round and thinking: what am I supposed to learn right now? This is now the ninth time I have cleared out my schedule, created some margin, and then two weeks later it’s all full again. What is happening? You realize you’re running from yourself. You have to slow down sometimes. I know that sounds weird to say on a Monday morning podcast, but what I’m advocating for is really understanding what’s going on inside us. That’s what brings life a sense of meaning and the ability to navigate through it better. We want alignment more than just status and money. And I know that sounds easy for people who are well off to say — but these are conscious decisions we can make at any time, to follow what our values are.

Angie 29:25 And at some point, we both know there was some ugly rock bottom in there. This isn’t an easy path to take — however, it will bring more meaning in the end.

Mike 29:38 I’m a big believer in what you’re doing here, because if you really think about how much time work takes up in our lives — we do it more than anything else, including sleep. At least a third of your life, if not more when you count commuting. This is most of your life. And it’s hard to meet people who feel truly fulfilled in their life but hate their job. There are some people who can tolerate their job and see it as a means to an end — and that’s fair. Nothing comes easy in life; this is what I’ve got to do, and I’m happy in other places.

Angie 30:10 It supports the other areas. They know what lane it fits into.

Mike 30:14 Yes. But if you hate your job — if it’s life-sucking — it’s just not worth it. You are smart enough, good enough, capable enough, resilient enough to find another way. And when you step out, the path reveals itself. I’m not being too woo here, but one of the best pieces of advice someone gave me: it’s hard to steer a parked car. You’ve got to be moving somewhat so the car can change directions — even if it’s one social media update at a time, one LinkedIn post at a time. Those things compound over time. Big doors swing on very small hinges. That’s what I look for consistently in my life now — what are those little things I can do that seem to have exponentially big returns?

Angie 31:05 Mike could stand here for an hour and we’d just have a show that is one hour of wisdom with Mike Kim. But until we do that show — how do people find you, find the book — books, plural, by the way — and continue to learn from you?

Mike 31:20 My website’s the best place. Mikekim.com/newsletter — I write every Tuesday and send out a post. It’s really the best work I’m doing right now. I’m actually syndicating that on my podcast and YouTube channel too — I just sit there and read the article. I don’t even create exclusive podcast content for the channel. I’ve been doing it for a while now and nobody’s complained — they’ve actually thanked me for it. People say: I read your post and then I listened to it later in the car. And I feel good that I’ve put my best stuff out there week to week. So mikekim.com/newsletter. And if you’re on LinkedIn, my handle is linkedin.com/in/mikekimtv.

Angie 32:00 We’ll link all of that in the show notes. And of course Mike and I are connected on LinkedIn — follow us both and we’ll fill up your news feeds with our never-ending fodder. For all of you out there, I know some of this might sound woo-woo or idyllic. However — you can make small, tiny motions to start figuring out how to improve alignment. If something feels off, seek one small thing to create some level of alignment, because I truly believe — and I say it every single week — you deserve to have a thriving career, business, and life on your terms. Not enough people step out of the box to do that. We keep ourselves small and we stay mediocre. Mike Kim and I are two now best friends on a mission to change that. I hope something here encouraged you to find your own economy of meaning.

Mike 32:50 Thank you for having me, Angie. And all you listening — go for it. You won’t regret it.

Angie 32:56 Go for it. I think that’s a good sign off. That’s what Mike Kim and Angie Callen have to say on this Monday morning — go for it. Mike, thank you so much for joining me. Finding meaning, everybody — you will never regret it. That’s the easiest way to put it. Until next week, I hope you have a great one. Check out our Wednesday mini episode to help you push through the week, and I will catch you next Monday for another edition of No More Mondays.