Episode 018

How to Thrive in a
Rapidly Changing World

Whether you’re an employee, manager, executive, or business owner, you’re sure to find inspiration and actionable advice in this gem-packed episode.
 
Available NOW wherever you get your podcast!

Episode Highlights and Show Notes:

Ever thought it’s too late to make a change or meet a goal? Do you fear making a career move after a long tenure in a specific industry? Do you feel like you’ve “missed the boat” on living up to your potential? John will debunk every self-limiting belief you have while giving great insight and actionable advice to make those beliefs a thing of the past!

John’s Book Recommendations

“The Optimizer: Building and Leading a Team of Serial Innovators

Connect with John:

johncsaunders.com

twitter.com/jcs_optimizer

instagram.com/jcs_optimizer/

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jcs-optimizer/

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Episode Transcript

Angie 

Welcome to the No More Mondays podcast, the show that inspires confident professionals by interviewing people who actually enjoy what they do for work. I’m your host, Angie Callen. And I welcome you to join me each week as I chat with founders, entrepreneurs, and employees who have figured out that special sauce, the magic, the mystery to having no more Mondays. Hello, everyone and welcome to the No More Mondays podcast. As always, I am so excited you decided to join us for this episode called How to thrive in a rapidly changing world. Today’s guest John Saunders doesn’t know it yet. But he’s going to help debunk a ton of myths on success and failure, perfection, age factor, and so many other things, people tend to use this as an excuse not to do that thing they always want to do. This is something John focuses on as a coach and an author and a consultant in his book, the optimizer and it’s also inherent in his professional background, where he spent 20 years as a wall street sales executive before stepping into his own business as a coach, consultant, and founder of forward advisory solutions. I never want to hear any of you 27 year olds out there say I’m too old to get my MBA or I’m too old to start a new career ever again, because you’re about to hear an example of exactly why that is not true. As a member of Georgetown University’s MBA Advisory Council, and author and active angel investor, a fellow podcaster, and host of the Creator community and a fellow lover of the lessons failure can teach us. Please help me welcome to the no more Mondays podcast, john Saunders.

 

John 

Hey, Angie!

 

Angie 

Hey, I’m so glad you’re here. And we have lots of things to talk about. I’m excited to see kind of where we end up on our winding conversation, because there are just so many little tidbits about your perspective on life and work and your experience that are going to be really relevant to what we tried to do here at the no more Mondays podcast. So thanks for joining, thank you for having me, it’s great to be here. So, let’s kind of start like we usually do and get an idea of what you’re doing right now. Tell us about forward advisory solutions.

 

John 

Sure, this is a coaching, consulting business to really help leaders unlock problems that they have, and as the name suggests, move their business forward. You know, so many times we can get in our own heads and get stuck on something in our business. And oftentimes, I find that people tend to point at one thing and say, this is what it is, I can’t get the right PowerPoint, I can’t get my technology, right. And what I often find is it’s it’s none of those things, you have the technical wherewithal on your team to get these things done. What I often find is, there’s a relationship, there’s a people issue going on. And that’s oftentimes what we find the unlocking is deepening relationships, understanding how to influence others, and really finding ways to make a meaningful impact. And that’s what I really try to help people do is unlock those problems, to one create greater value in their business, but to get it done, because things don’t get done without people, right. And that’s really a big part of what Ford Advisory Solutions is all about helping people move forward and through working with others.

 

Angie 

And one of the things that got me really excited about this is there’s your kind of almost like trifecta, because there’s the employment journey that we’re gonna get into. There’s the entrepreneurial stuff that I could squirrel with you on all day long. But there’s also this aspect of kind of leadership development, which is really, really applicable to people, whether they’re in business or in the business of, you know, employment as a leader in a company.

 

John 

And I would say, I think it doesn’t matter if your job title has leader or manager or you know, executive, whatever it might be, I think we’re all leaders. And if we can embrace that mindset, I think we are more impactful in our roles and how we impact those around us and grow our business.

 

Angie 

There’s a reason I picked the title, the rapidly changing how to thrive in the rapidly changing world because this is really relevant to how workforce cultures are changing different generations in the workplace, and kind of how leadership has to adapt to that. So, I’m guessing that comes into this work as well.

 

John 

You just can’t ever stop learning each person you work with is different, has their own journey has their own story, and you’ve got to find a way to connect with them. Because if you can’t connect with people, you’re not going to get their buying, you’re not going to be able to influence them or find collaborative efforts together. So, I think learning is important and I think understanding that everybody’s different. And you know building from that starting point is key.

 

Angie 

People are way more important to our success and the end that culture in a work force then I feel like sometimes they’re given credit for being that idea of like kind of human capital. So, I love that you’re kind of operating right at that at that kind of intersection as well.

 

John 

 I appreciate that. And you know, culture is a word. I feel like it’s sort of thrown around a lot and you know, what is it you can’t sort of touch it right and I would argue you can and you everybody has it. Culture in their organization, whether they know it or not, right, and it’s what you do. It’s what you allow, and it’s what you don’t do and what you don’t allow. And these are things that can’t be taken for granted. And so many times are, and sometimes leaders just sort of assume they’re gonna figure themselves out. And if you do, it’s often the lowest common denominator that figures it out. So, I’m a big believer, you need to be very proactive, and how you build and develop culture with your team,

 

Angie 

Kind of take us back through the journey on how you came to do this work at forward advisory solutions.

 

John 

You know, just surf going way back, I was, you know, sort of brought up in the upper Midwest, you know, go work, right, when I was always shoveling the neighbor’s driveway for $5, here, whatever, this kind of thing. I was the local paper boy, you know, this thing I was, since I was, I don’t know, 12, 13, 14, I was a busboy. You know, I did all these jobs that nobody really wants, right. And so but I was taught very early on that a work ethic is really important. And as a young kid, I just my parents got me into thinking about investing very early, they bought an investment for me when I was, I think three or four, they did it for all their children. And I still own that investment to this day, by the way, it’s a mutual fund. But anyway, so I had this interested Wall Street investing. So after college, I did a bit of networking, found a way to get out there and started with a firm as an assistant. And I stepped in and said, how do I work harder, because that’s what I knew how to do, right? Just go work hard and come in early, stay late, these kind of things. And as time evolved, I realized that there’s a bigger thing here, one, you have to have support within your organization to get ahead, people that are going to support you, in your effort to go through job interviews, and promotions, and to, you have to find ways to work more impactful and create value for the organization. I think there’s a trifecta of working hard, creating those relationships, and then finding ways to improve and create value for the organization. And sometimes we try to pick one or two of those things and focus on them. I think they’re all incredibly relevant. So as I went through my career, always trying to improve things, looking around, how do we fix this? How do we operate, but I always like to say is how do we operate more efficiently and effectively, and you can’t just pick one, right? You’ve got to find a balance between those two things. And so as I went through my career, I just always put that lens against things. And as I did it, you know, things would improve business would improve value creation happened. And, you know, it really helped my career. It certainly wasn’t without its hiccups. And I’m happy to talk about that. But that was really my mindset. As I went through it, I always had this thinking around once I figured something out, I was really always happy to help pass it on. Because I felt I’ve always had great mentors along the way. So anytime I figured something out, I always turn around and say, here’s someone a year behind me two years behind me, whatever the case may be, gosh, I wish I would have known this two years ago, let me help them out here. And it just became this natural thing to move into leadership. And now as a coach, because it’s honestly, it’s the same kind of work. I would imagine that in this in this world, you’re coaching people who you kind of were in that in that professional career, right? So it really gives you that firsthand experience, ability to understand almost empathize with the challenges that they face. You know, it’s so hard when you especially when you move into a role that and I did this myself, right? It’s a big role for you, you didn’t do it before. Now you’re suddenly running this, you were a participator in this big business, now you’re running this big business all of a sudden, right? And you really have to reprioritize what it is you do and how you do it and thinking about, you know, gosh, what are the three to five things I really need to do? And what do I need to let go of, and that’s a hard thing for people to do all the time. Though, some of the best advice I got when I first moved into leadership from a mentor of mine was, you know, you were very successful in your prior role. You cannot make this new role about making everybody exactly what you were, you know, people have to find their own journey, you can create guideposts for them, which I certainly worked on a lot of time thinking about right these are the things we know we have to sort of operate within this lane to get our business driven and happy and make it happen. But you cannot go out and tell people I’m you know, Monday do this. And on Tuesday I did this you know this kind of thing. It doesn’t work you can’t make a bunch of money means you have to find a way to unearth people’s gifts, and empower them to release them and share them with the world. And that’s super important. And it doesn’t happen by chance.

 

Angie 

Yeah, you really you meet them where they’re at. And you figure out how to motivate them as at an individual level, not shoved them in the box. That’s just easy and like the mass, the mass delivery and you okay, so, you actually provided a great segue because everybody has these different journeys. And I kind of chuckled because I talked to a lot of like new grads, early career professionals and that the early 20s set has some definite kind of challenges. And they’re kind of thinking and they really have this like analysis paralysis to be perfect like literally I was talking to this 25 year old client of mine yesterday and she was like I’m 25, oh my gosh, what am I going to do and then it’s like I’m too old to go back to school and then all these kind of things so there’s all these like agent like it’s weird, like ageism has come into play at 25 now and I’m like, well, geez, I got one foot in the grave one banana peel. But what I want to talk about a little bit is what would you say to those people and what’s your personal experience that kind of defies that current myth that some age groups are telling themselves

 

John 

Living is about learning. You know, Ben Franklin famously said some people die at 25, but are buried until they’re 75. And I think what he meant by that my interpretation of this, and I read it, probably 20 years ago, and I’m probably when I was in my 20s. And thinking, what does that mean, and to me, it means we sort of do all this, all these things, we learn our whole lives and jump into a career in our early 20s. And then just start punching a clock for the next 30-40 years, because it’s comfortable, it’s easy, my argument is, you can never stop learning, learning has so many benefits to it quickly, I’ll just share, you know, one, it gives you new information to learn from and recognize world isn’t exactly what I thought it was. And maybe it’s not as perfect as I was. It says, as I thought it was. And secondly, it gives you this new tool, this new resource to do something about it. And that simple construct, I think is often overlooked.

 

Angie 

So, I need you to just straight out tell everybody, when did you go get your MBA? 

 

John 

Let me do some math here real quick. I think I started to read around the early 40s. And so it was, you know, to your revealed, so I think I finished around 43 years old, something like this.

 

Angie 

Thank you. Because if you’re 27, and you haven’t gone to get your MBA, you’re not too old to use it once you get out of it. There was also a conversation I’ve had I’ve had recently, what is your direct advice to people in this in this kind of category, whatever age, they are, who they may have a long tenure in a career, or an industry or a company or they feel like they’ve missed, they’ve missed their opportunity to do some kind of change, and that fear is keeping them from doing it. What’s your advice to those?

 

John 

Well, first of all, you’re never too old to go into new directions. Second of all, I think it starts with learning. And I think there’s lots of ways to learn. Somebody gave me some amazing advice. When I went through my transition in 2019, where my company got sold, I had a great deal to leave, and not as attractive one to stay. So, I left and had some time to figure out what I wanted to do. And this one gal I talked to you I said, Man, I really like this entrepreneur sort of venture capital space, how would I go there? And she said, Go immerse yourself in it. And your value proposition will manifest itself. And I remember thinking, you know, is this Yoda like, What is she talking about? And I just started going to all these events and meeting people and talking to people, because oftentimes people sit on their couch and think, man, I want to do all these great things. And I’ve thought about all these great things. And here I sit on my couch yet, that’s not going to make it happen, right? You’ve got to go out, meet people network, interact, learn. So, I’m at this event at this pitch competition. And I saw this gentleman, he actually hadn’t done his presentation yet. He walks up to me, we just start talking. He’s got this interesting business in the AI space. We start talking, I started asking him questions. And after like, 30 minutes, he looks at me, he goes, could you do that for us? I said, Do what? Like coach me like this. And I said, I’ve just been talking to you, I didn’t even realize what I was doing. And so that was my first client actually was that company, which is really kind of funny. But I immersed myself in this universe. I went out and met tons of people continue to do that. And you find I found my value proposition manifesting itself, I have this unique gift that I just helped people unlock and on Earth, what it really is the problem that they’re really facing. Oftentimes they think they see had this one issue that’s more superficial, you start asking a few questions, you realize, oh, it’s actually this. And oftentimes, it’s, as I said earlier, people driven. 

 

Angie 

But the reason I asked you this question is because I give a similar response, but it helps us It helps people to hear this, it’s like after a while it’s your parent, you’re just not gonna listen and you need somebody else to tell you and I think the first thing is, nothing’s going to happen if you don’t take the first step. And the first step could be as easily is getting off the couch and going and learning and giving yourself exposure to it. Because what I think is really interesting is you discovered that gift you discovered that unique value proposition through the willingness to explore and learn it wasn’t like this, necessarily like an aha moment at the time you were like a kind of like this entrepreneurship thing but gotta figure out what it is that that came to you through a series of experiences that clearly presented your uvp so well that somebody hired you on the spot so I think I think that’s really great advice. I want to know a little bit more and what you to tell us your what your perspective on kind of like celebrating mistakes is and how that can actually empower people in teams.

 

John 

I love that that’s actually one of the subtitles in my book is celebrating mistakes, which is a really fun topic but you know, maybe back to your 20 something years we were just talking to a minute ago, when I hit 25, 26 in my career, I stalled out I kept trying to get promotions of sitting on wall street I was about three or four years into it and a bunch of promotions came up that I got overpass for probably three or four which was unusual for somebody that sort of my stage to knock it to not get one and I was getting really frustrated and I remember thinking wow, I hear I have peaked 25 years old and it’s over right, so I did what you know, I put on my you know, my my sort of humility hat and I went to a guy in the company I’ll say strategically because he was someone I want. They go work on his team. And I went to him and I said, man, I’m feeling stuck here. I’ve interviewed two or three times, not only your department, but others. And I’m missing something here. You know, what am I missing? What would you do here? If you were me? And you’re going to probably hear me say that question a few times, because it’s probably the most powerful question I’ve ever learned. And he said, You don’t have the right experience. So, you’re not well rounded enough to get this promotion. And so my thing was his whole chicken and egg. Well, how do I get that experience? If someone hasn’t given me the opportunity, right, this whole thing? And he said, I just can’t do it. It’s too big of a risk for me. And I said, all right. He said, I said, what would you do if you were me, and he said, go find work in a volunteer space, where you can develop some of these skills for maybe a nonprofit. And so I went out, this is, again, 25 years old. And I sort of put that out to my network, my friends, hey, I’m looking for this kind of work and volunteer space. And so sort of put that out to the universe. Things happen, people think about you differently and think you have a goal you’re trying to get to. Long story short, I meet the director of this Independent Film Festival at a party. And he had heard a little bit about me thinking about this, we start talking and I said, how do you guys do fundraising or sell sponsorships? And I said, I think I could help you with that. And sure enough, I jumped on board with these guys went out did all this researching looking for prospects to sell ads to and this kind of thing. And first year didn’t work out. So well, it came out quite late. But I built a good lead list. Fast forward the next year, the 20 years that festivals around, they had a title sponsor exactly one year and it was that year, Jameson Irish whiskey, I got them to sponsor the event. So I went from not really sort of knowing what to do with my career to hey, go asking for advice going on execute it, you know, putting it out to the universe, executing on it. And suddenly, I went from selling ads for this company, this organization to some festival, to becoming their director of sponsorship. And that really helped change my mindset on my job at Wall Street, I took that skill set back, my career took off, I got promoted, and the next go round. And I had a good run after that.

 

Angie 

The message here, I think as well, there’s lots of messages there. The big one that stuck out to me is that you didn’t really do this alone. And I think that that’s definitely something that we get we feel vulnerable about kind of like asking for help. But people are willing and want to help. That one piece of advice was a pivotal moment in your career trajectory,

 

John 

It completely changed my career. I mean, that put me on the path to becoming a vice president of a company at 26 years old, which was pretty unusual. But I was able to demonstrate with this new skill set that you know, I was worth taking a shot. So, talk to me how this is all rolled into the optimizer your book. So, this actually goes back to this asking someone for help thing, interestingly enough, you know, as I mentioned, in 2019, my company got sold, I left and I went to a friend, he said you should read a paper leadership, because that’s what you do. And that’s, you know, you’ve had a great run at it. I put it on LinkedIn, as a marketing tool. Great idea. So, I start reading this thing, put this out to the universe that I was working on this paper, a friend of mine network came to me said, hey, john, I hope executives get published, be happy to work with your list. So, I met with him every week for several weeks, kind of fine tuning it. And then I finally had this thing, what I thought was good. Took it to my business school, one of my business school professors at we met for lunch right before Christmas, 2019. And I said I wanted to, I was going to him to say, you know, given the context, and Forbes or something to try to get it published. And I said, so what do you think, what should I do with this paper here, and he said, I think you have the makings of a book. And I said, boy, I’ve thought about writing a book, but I don’t even know how to start this kind of thing. And he said, I know a coach, an author, coach, you should go talk to him. And this might be a segue into now this sort of immerse yourself into something because writing a book is an immersive experience, experience, and just dove into that over the course of 2020 really, and then, of course, the pandemic happened. So, it was almost a good time to immerse yourself and writing a book, there was almost serendipity, right? That I had this massive project to work on. And it kept me very busy during that year. And as I, as you write it, and you get coached to research and interview people, your network grows, and you learn about new things, and you continue to grow. And that has, honestly, that book and the topics from it have been what’s opened so many doors to landing new clients for the business, which has been great. Tell everybody real quick about your podcast, that’s called the Creator Community. And it’s for the buyer, one of my bigger clients is the company have published my book. And they came to me after the end of the project at the publishing and they said, you know, you’ve kind of figured out what we do and figured out ways to do it a bit better, which I just can’t turn off. I guess that’s why my books called the optimizer and they said, you know, would you be willing to come and work with us and help our future coaches do that? And said, oh, that sounds great. So, I’ve been working with them a bunch, and as I look across, looked across the value proposition of what they offer to the world, I realized as a new author, the hardest thing to do is get your first interview. And I had some good fortune with that. And so I thought maybe I could help people get this done. And I said, why don’t why don’t you all launch a podcast and have this new tool I can help train people to be on the show how to be good guests how to talk about their book is talking about your book and writing your book are two entirely different skills.

 

Angie 

So, who is John, the person, I know you have a family, what do you do in your personal life? What rounds you out from all of this other work?

 

John 

I’m a big believer in getting outside, which sounds so simple, but people don’t do it. And I just I love hiking I love being in nature. So, on the weekends, I take my kids, my family out, hiking a lot, done a lot. I do a lot of mountain biking, although I did break myself earlier this year. So, I’m on a bit of a hiatus I broke my collarbone doing that.

 

Angie 

That’s very common mountain biker and injury. I’m married to a mountain biker.

 

John 

Right? It’s got the titanium plate to prove it. But yeah, I’m all I really like getting outside. And I’ll never forget in college learning about photo tropism, which is not a word a lot of people think about, are you familiar with that term? You’re gonna have to, I have a guess. I have never written it in a resume. Maybe that’s changed after you make it Our word of the day. So, give everybody that definition for the day. So, right plants grow towards the sun, right? You’ve seen plants that sort of tilt towards the sun. And people often wonder why is that happening? Right? And you sort of you sort of think it just once gets energy. The reason it happens is the backside of the plant beside that sits away from the sun has a longer dark or down cycle. So, it’s actually growing faster. And that’s why it grows longer. So, that’s why it starts to tilt because the backside is growing longer, literally growing faster, because it has more downtime, more time to rejuvenate, trying to absorb what it took him during the day. And honestly, I learned that in college and biology in like the 90s. I still think about that to this day. And I think about that my own life, how do I take that time to re energize and sort of go back to nature and sort of unplug from all these things we’re plugged into these days. And I just find that super important. I really try to impart that on my kids as well.

 

Angie 

I am going to steal that and use it. One of the things that we like to do on the No More Mondays podcast is play a little game of rapid fire just to get have a little fun and get to know you better. So, are you ready? Alright, sounds awesome. You already made reference to the first question without knowing it. So, Star Trek or Star Wars?

 

John 

You know, listening to some other episodes, you’re not gonna like my answer. Star Wars.

 

Angie 

I wouldn’t be I mean, you’re already referenced the OTA. So, we did teaser everybody. I don’t know where it will be in the season. But someone did answer Star Trek. So, my in laws will be very excited because they’re huge Trekkies. Tell me your favorite candy.

 

John 

I like that Australian red licorice that they sell at Whole Foods. So good to me. I don’t know what’s good about it. But the flavor really hits.

 

Angie 

When you were a kid? What did you want to be when you grew up? 

John 

I think early on, I always thought about being a lawyer. 

Angie 

So, we already know the optimizer is an excellent book recommendation. But give us another.

 

John 

So many. Right now I’m reading Mindset by Carol Dweck, which is a little bit old at this point. But it references a few things you said earlier on in the show here, which is, you know, seek every obstacle or every challenge as something to learn from. And I just, I think I can’t stress that one enough, right? We always run you’re always going to run into an obstacle no matter what you try. It’s never going to go perfectly the first try. And instead of saying, man, I failed in my big idea didn’t work. Think about how do we refine this? How do we get to that end goal? And how do we solve this problem. And if you can focus on that growth, it’s just so so important.

 

Angie 

I’m going to throw in a book recommendation, which I don’t usually do. And here we go, dragging out rapid fire, I need to start calling this slow fire. And but I’m gonna bring it up because it just came out. It’s from one of my favorite fellow coaches, but it it kind of emphasizes what you just talked about. So, it’s how Elrod who is the writer of the Miracle Morning, just launched a second, I think it’s the second book and it’s called the Miracle Equation. And it talks about having its mindset, unwavering faith, and extreme effort to make miracles for yourself and achieve outcomes. So, this let’s reinforce that message.

 

John 

Love that.

 

Angie 

Tell us a great 80s band.

 

John 

Ah, interesting. So many to think of I you know, one of the things about my life is I’ve always enjoyed sort of the spectrum of all things. So, you know, there’s a long period drive as a skateboarder and into punk music. Jodie Foster’s Army Dead Kennedys, you know, this kind of thing, you know, on to sort of get into the 70s thing with Steve Miller and the Grateful Dead. And maybe quintessential, you know, Duran Duran or Depeche Mode. Maybe you might be the real classic.

 

Angie 

Gen X mute music lineup because I’m sitting here like how many Steve Miller’s concerts did I go to when I was like 16 years old in the star like amphitheater outside of Pittsburgh, so there’s like 10 great suggestions there and I’m gonna queue up a 90s playlist based on all of them. What was your favorite childhood TV show?

 

John 

Boy, that’s a tough one. Because you know, when I was a kid, there were only like three channels, right?

 

Angie 

You had to hit the TV, maybe get a fourth. Turn the antenna.

 

John 

I guess depending on which part of my age group but I always loved Gilligan’s Island. For some reason I was a big fan of that show.

 

Angie 

Favorite ice cream flavor?

 

John 

Salted caramel.

 

Angie 

And because this is a show about Monday, I would be remiss if I did not bring this slow fire home with asking you the first word that comes to mind when I say Monday,

 

John 

Fresh.

 

Angie 

Tell us why.

 

John 

Monday, every Monday is a fresh start, you know, what am I going to do this week? Who am I going to help? How am I going to, you know, help the people around me and make make things better? I love looking at a new week from Monday morning and seeing you know, what are the awesome things we can get done this week. That just really invigorates me.

 

Angie 

Fresh is a great word. I think that’s a new one. And it’s yeah, I love like wouldn’t it be like you can it almost makes you feel like it that’s like fresh. I’m going in refreshed and fresh. So Excellent. Excellent word to associate with Monday. Excellent feeling to have when you start your Monday morning,

 

John 

What do you think like that plant thing, right? Like take the weekend to kind of sort of downturn, take a minute to like, relax, right? or hopefully a few. And then you can come back fresh because you’ve taken the time to rejuvenate yourself. And that’s so important.

 

Angie 

I love how we just keep tying back to other parts of the conversation. I kind of want to go rename this episode phototropism. But no one would get that so we’ll just leave it as is. So, tell us that tell everybody where we can find you. Where can we find the book? How do people find out more about forward advisory solutions? How do we follow your journey?

 

John 

Thanks. Yeah, the book is available wherever you buy books online, Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, you know, wherever you like to do that. Anywhere on social media, it’s my initials JCS optimizer. So if you punch that in pretty much Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn, you’ll find me there. And then I have my website is just my name john with an H. JOHN C for Charles Saunders.

 

Angie 

And as usual, we will link to all of those in the show notes. John and I are connected on LinkedIn. So, you can find him there, as well. Big fan on LinkedIn, that’s a rabbit hole we will not go into. And as we bring this all home, as if they’re not about you know, 12 carats of great golden nuggets in this conversation, give us your best piece of advice on what listeners can do to get one step closer to a more enjoyable career.

 

John 

You know, we talked a little bit about this, go out and ask people for help idea. That was sort of my thought for this, but I’ll flip it on its head and since we already talked about that and say, go create an opportunity for somebody else. And think about that, how can you go out this week and create an opportunity for someone else. And putting that I’ll use the word karma out into the universe is such a powerful force, go get someone an internship, go reach out to someone you know, is struggling with, you know, their career, maybe it’s some mental health issues, health issues, whatever it is, but go help somebody else. And I think you’ll be astounded and what that does for you and your own self esteem, and how it’ll start to put a very big positive energy, positive momentum and energy for you out there in the universe. So, we talked about asking for help from others, which I think is a big one, but go help somebody else out and see what happens. I think you’ll be surprised.

 

Angie 

I mean, that that person who gave John advice is is memorable to him. I mean, you’re never gonna forget exactly who that was. Never forget that conversation. Go be that to somebody else. What a great piece of advice. As we wrap up another amazing episode of No More Mondays in a great conversation with John Saunders. This has been so perfect. Thank you so much for being on the show and joining the no more Mondays movement. And yeah, I’m so glad we connected and I really appreciate you having me on I really enjoyed the discussion. And don’t forget to check out John’s podcast and the great things he’s doing to support new authors at a creator community. And as always, we love hearing from people who are enjoying what they do for work and in life. And John is a great example of that. And I hope you found some inspiration to go out and explore and help others and, and create your own change and opportunities for the future. So, thank you for joining us for another episode of No More Mondays. For those of you out there listening I would love for you to subscribe to the No More Mondays podcast wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a five star rating because it is a huge help as we continue to inspire confident professionals and teams and entrepreneurs with these great stories. If you’d like to leave us comments, feedback, or drop a guest suggestion, visit us online at No More Mondays dot info. Thanks for listening to this episode of No More Mondays, we hoped you grabbed some great insights to help you improve your professional satisfaction. Please visit us at Apple iTunes and give us a rating so we can continue to offer you awesome interviews and content each week. No More Monday’s new episodes drop every Wednesday. No More Mondays is brought to you by Career Benders, Inc in partnership with executive producer Jane Durkee. For more information about career coaching, resume writing, personal branding, recruiting, and entrepreneurship coaching services, visit our website at career benders.com that’s Career Benders, B is in boy S is in sam dot com. This is your host Angie Callen signing off until next week when we chat with another inspired, confident professional.

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