Episode 111

The Power of Vision and Clarity:
A Conversation with Rusty Gaillard

Finding happiness, career or otherwise, isn’t always easy. It takes a lot of introspection, but most of all it takes vision and finding clarity to see your true self.

That’s the message of today’s episode, and it’s brought to us by Rusty Gaillard. Rusty left his 14 year career at Apple to share his message that we are all capable of rewriting our own code and envisioning the path to success.

Listen in and get started on your journey.

Available NOW wherever you get your podcast!

Listen Now

Rusty’s Book:

Breaking The Code: Stop Looking for Answers and Start Enjoying Life

Connect with Rusty:

Rusty’s Vision Worksheet



Rusty’s Bio

Rusty Gaillard is a highly regarded executive leadership coach, coaching senior executives to increase their impact without working longer hours. Former Worldwide Director of Finance at Apple, Rusty blends decades of hands-on business experience with leadership principles to help executives be more bold, decisive, and action-oriented. 

Rusty is the author of the best-selling book Breaking the Code, and is a sought-after speaker, trainer, and transformational coach. A graduate of Stanford Business School, he enjoys singing karaoke with his wife and running mud races with his 16-yr old son.

Questions, Comments, and Guest Suggestions



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Welcome to No More Mondays, the podcast that helps you navigate career challenges through the wisdom of professionals who have been at the same crossroads. I’m your host, Angie Callen, and I welcome you to join me each week as I chat with leaders, entrepreneurs, and employees, who are here to share their practical, tactical advice and some inspiration on how they arrived at career and life satisfaction. From job searching and career changes to going out on your own. We are breaking down barriers and providing actionable takeaways to help you take charge of your Mondays and ditch those Sunday blues. Welcome to no more Mondays. Hello everyone, and welcome to no more Mondays as always; I’m your host Angie Callen. Do you have the courage to achieve and realize real success? It’s a funny question, isn’t it? You know, the truth is not everyone has the you know what to shoot for the fences, and while that’s okay, I’m gonna take a guess that if you’re listening to this podcast, you are ready to get to the next level or maybe you are actively seeking more as we speak. Well, I am glad you tuned in today because Rusty Gaillard is here to chat with me about how you can achieve real success and reach your potential on your own terms. As an executive leadership coach, Rusty has carved out a niche helping executives and leaders in companies make bold, decisive decisions rooted in actions, and you’ll know how much I love tactical, practical, actual coaching and advice. Rusty is the best-selling author of Breaking the Code, a book about how you can be an exceptional leader while not sacrificing life and everything that’s important to you. So apparently, you can have it all. Rusty is going to teach us how to overcome challenges, fears, and uncertainties that hold us back from being that powerful, impactful, purposeful person and leader we are meant to be. I have a feeling I’m gonna like this one. So without further ado, help me welcome to the show, Rusty Gaillard. Rusty Welcome to no more Mondays! 


Angie, thank you so much. It’s great to be here. 


I’m super excited for this one. And I’m we’re gonna get into kind of all little things. But let’s kind of set the stage and get a snapshot into, I would say, the Reader’s Digest version of your career. I know there’s kind of a pivotal moment in there, a turning point; it had a big name attached to it that seemed to turn the tides on your career trajectory. So give everybody the little elevator pitch on exactly where you were and how you got here. 


Yeah, I want to just start off by saying I’m somewhat of an unlikely entrepreneur because I went to business school at Stanford during the.com era. So I came out here to California in 1999. After starting my career in engineering, I was an engineer in college; I worked at General Electric as an engineer and figured out I didn’t really like engineering. I love studying it, but I don’t like practicing it. So I moved away towards finance operations and came to California for an MBA in 1999; in the height of the.com craziness, two-thirds of my classmates were starting a business, or, you know, involved in a business in some way. And it was like startup mania out here. And what I figured at that point, I was like, Well, geez, everyone else is doing, I gotta try it. So I went, and I worked at a startup. And it was kind of cool. But what I figured out, I actually like working at big companies. So after I left Stanford, I graduated, and I worked at pg&e for a couple of years, and then moved on to Apple. And I ended up spending 14 years at Apple. So my corporate career at this point consists of three enormous companies. And if I was really lucky to have joined Apple in 2005, pre-iPhone, and I was there in operations. And then, in finance, I led the sales forecast globally for all of Apple for all the products in the years after the iPhone was announced. So rapid growth, massive expansion and building our team, super interesting time to be their big successes, big failures in that job. And many years later, in 2019, I decided to leave and start my own business. And to me, that was never in the cards. For me, it was a total change in direction. And that’s why I say I’m somewhat of an unlikely engineer, because, or excuse me, unlikely entrepreneur, because I grew up in a family where my dad worked at a big company and worked in the same company for 35 years. And that was what success meant and looked like in my head as well as explicitly from him. And then I went off and started a business. So it was kind of a surprise, actually, that I got there. It’s so interesting to me how we, I also think our generation is the one who got to experience that kind of bigger market shift where we, you know, we started our careers still in that time and the expectations of our baby boomer parents that you were gonna do the same thing for the same 30 years that they did. And then the.com Boom, and then the great recession really shifted things and made entrepreneurship an alternative career. yours become much more viable and mainstream. And I have to tell you something really interesting. I am also a former engineer. And I have found that engineers who I, like you said, liked the study of it, I didn’t really care for the nuanced minutiae of the actual practice of it. And what I find is that engineers who don’t have they have the skill, set, intelligence, and technical knowledge to be an engineer, but don’t have the personality of an engineer, make amazing entrepreneurs. So in a way, your accidental kind of fall into entrepreneurship makes sense. There are a lot of former engineers who I find that move on to become entrepreneurs and great ones. Yeah, you know, one of the things that I was I was thinking of, as you were, as you’re doing the intro, right, you said that you want to achieve and realize great success. And I actually want to add a step that comes before achieving and realizing it, which is to conceive of it. And this is related to the idea of being an engineer because engineers are very practical. But it’s not just engineers; I think all of us, to some extent, when we start to think about what we want in our career and what’s possible for us, whether it’s advancing in the business that you’re in, it’s growing a business that you own, or changing business, you know, changing your career entirely, whatever realm it’s in, you have to be able and be willing to conceive of what it looks like. And that’s where I find most people get stuck. Yeah, there’s a vision. There’s a visioning aspect there. Absolutely. There’s a visioning aspect. And instead of, instead of crafting a vision, most people craft goals. And the difference in goals is what do I think I can accomplish? And then, you set your goal for what you think you can accomplish. And a vision stretches beyond that. It’s not a dream, it’s like, oh, wouldn’t it be nice if I spent my days floating on a boat in the Caribbean, whatever it’s not, it’s not that, and you know, to some people, maybe that is a vision, but the vision is in between, it’s in between this like, kind of what you put out there as impossible and a goal. And so if you draw a line between those things, you want the vision to be in the middle somewhere where it feels like a stretch, or like, I’m not sure how I would do this. And frankly, it’s a little intimidating to think of doing it. That makes a good vision. And so you have to conceive of that before you ever stand a chance of achieving or realizing it. I knew I was gonna love this conversation. I was literally talking to a client two days ago. And she is in a very similar place. She’s young and her career works in a very structured, stable, and predictable career environment. And the entrepreneurial spirit is just making her bust at the seams. And she was going through concepts, she knew what she wanted to do. She’s just scared of it. And she literally said to me, this is the thing I want to do. But it terrifies me. And I’m afraid, and I was like, that means it’s exactly the thing that you’re supposed to go do. And I think that that it’s a little bit like your that vision is that bigger compass point we have. It’s not quite as specific or metric-driven as a goal. But the goal and the goals are meant to continue moving you towards that vision. But that vision is the thing that you can always continue to kind of like strive for. It’s almost like the goalposts that keep the keep moving. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s your it’s your Northstar, right. It’s your compass point that keeps you pointing in that direction. Absolutely. So I was in thinking about this conversation. And I was thinking about three things I wanted to mention. And you just tapped on the first one, which is this willingness to be uncomfortable in the service of achieving your big goals or your vision. And just like this person you just talked about, right? She was like, Oh, my goodness, could I do this, and it’s intimidating. And I feel nervous. And, like, that’s exactly the kind of feeling you can recognize as an indicator that you’re moving in the right direction. But you have to be willing to be uncomfortable and to tolerate that, and not let it stop you. Because that’s where most of us get stuck. We’re like, Oh, it feels uncomfortable. It feels intimidating. I’m scared; I must be doing it wrong. And it’s that that conclusion that you draw is the problem. It’s not that you’re doing it wrong; it’s that you’re doing something new; of course, it’s going to be uncomfortable and a little intimidating because you’ve never done it before. But it’s moving you towards something you care about. So you’ve got to be willing to tolerate that discomfort and still move forward. Well, and just the life of an entrepreneur discomfort is a reality for you forever. For the for the lifetime of your entrepreneurial journey, that discomfort is is is a certainty it’ll come in and out. And you have to be you almost have to be uncomfortable to continue innovating within your own space. So I love that I took you there. And also whether you’re an entrepreneur or whether you’re a person who’s working in a big company, and you have an idea you want to share, or you don’t like the content of your work, and you want to shift that or whether you’re running a company and you’ve got a multi a team below you. Any one of those situations work always presents opportunities where you know what the right thing to do is, and there’s a part of you that resists it. Right Like, like, think about life. If it’s like, you know, okay, am I going to eat ice cream right now? Or am I gonna go for a walk and then eat a healthy dinner? It’s like, we all have these situations, you know, that’s the easy one to relate to. But it’s the same thing at work. Am I gonna go in and tell my boss that I disagree with the direction they’re taking? Or am I just gonna be quiet and buckle down and do it? And then not enjoy my job? Right? It’s like, we all have these situations. So what are you going to choose? Are you going to choose the thing that’s uncomfortable that moves you forward? Or are you going to choose the thing that kind of allows you to sit still, and building that tolerance for discomfort and moving forward anyway, is a huge, huge skill? I’ve seen a meme lately that’s been circulating, particularly the CrossFit world, where it says, And let me make sure I get this right, it says, easy choices, hard life, hard choices, easy life. And I think that this is exactly it. That’s where this comes in right? I’m not telling you never to eat ice cream. We all know I love ice cream. However, you have to choose, at some point, how often to do that because it could make your life harder if you choose ice cream every day. And then you’re like, Oh, crap, now I gotta go lose the 10 pounds, versus choosing ice cream once a week, and then you maintain your weight, you don’t have to lose it. All of that relates to this, this idea of whether it’s your own business, or you’re working intrapreneur really, in a company to kind of push innovation and boundaries there. That kind of idea of discomfort and pushing yourself and others is totally true. Yeah, I totally agree with that meme. And that’s saying, and another way to think about that is perspective. Because typically the things that in if you’re focused on the short term, ice cream sounds great. But if you’re focused on the long term, eating, and living a healthy lifestyle sounds great. And it’s the same thing at work, right? If you’re focused on the short term, just saying, Well, I’m just going to keep my mouth shut and buckle down and do what’s being asked of me is the easier path, frankly. But if you’re focused on the long term about saying, I want a rewarding career, and I want to bring the best of myself to whatever it is I’m doing so that I can make an impact. If you’re focused on that perspective, then yeah, you’re more likely to speak up. And I’ll say, you know, I told I started off by saying I’m somewhat of an unlikely entrepreneur because I come from this heritage of working in large companies, including my own experience. But it was in that moment of decision that I said, Okay, am I really going to leave Apple? I’ve been here for 14 years, it’s a great company, I’ve got a great job, and I’m good at it. I’m an expert in my field, I paid well, and I’m gonna go from that to a beginner working for myself, or I have to actually build a business from zero. I’ve never done this before; I’ve got to learn all sorts of new skills, and that was super intimidating. And there was a big part of me that said, Oh, man, just stay where you are; it would be way easier. And I had to zoom out to that big perspective of my whole life. And I imagined myself at 85 years old, sitting on a rocking chair, somewhere on a porch, reflecting on my life saying, what feels like the kind of life I want to live for myself. And it was so clear in that, in that moment, to say, Oh, just go for it. Even if I fall on my face, and I fail, and I go crawling back to Apple or some other company and say, go for a job there, it still will have been a worthwhile experience to go off on my own. And if I had to zoom way out to get there, you can always quote unquote, go back, whatever the Go Back thing is, in my opinion; however, if you do fast forward and think about what you would I regret is kind of it’s kind of sometimes a way I’ll pose it to clients when they can’t quite make the decision. Well, if you can look at your future self, which one would you regret and look back and go Man, I wish I would have done it. Do it. And I think the point blank, the point-blank question I’ll ask is, do you feel like this has been the most rewarding experience of your career so far? Oh, Tim, for me, I thought that was a hypothetical man; I’m on the spot; I have to answer that I put you on the spot. It certainly has been the biggest growth opportunity. And the thing I am most proud of in my career. I like, I’ll tell you honestly, like, I’m really I feel really good about the career that I lead at Apple, 14 years there being there, through the launch of the iPhone, the iPad, the watch and all that, like, I did great stuff. I was part of a great company and contributed to that success. And I feel really good about that. But what I’ve learned the stretching myself the, the willingness to bet on myself, frankly, and to go for what I want. That’s a totally new, totally new experience. I tell people all the time there is no better exploration into self-discovery than entrepreneurship. So I love that that’s exactly how you answered the question because it does it. It exposes strengths and weaknesses and vulnerabilities that no other professional endeavor will. But I also love that you can reflect it like reflect on the seasons, right? So Apple, during its scaling boom, yours was an amazing season that you can feel really proud of. But at the same time, you can also look at that and say I contributed; I did great. And I left at the right time to go and do this next thing in this in this next season so that you individually can grow. And I think that that’s an incredible kind of an incredible rear view to be able to have as you continue to work on the future. And so we have, we’ve we have this has been a super. So this is all under the point of getting uncomfortable. So I’m curious about what’s number two? Well, I was just thinking about that as you were talking about it. Number two is, is a little bit related. And it’s to think about your life from an unconstrained standpoint. And so this is back to the point I was making earlier about an engineer, right? engineers tend to look at what are the constraints? And then how do I optimize within that set of constraints. And frankly, that’s what most of us do. If you think about shopping, right? You go in, and you’re looking for new clothes, new shoes, a new car, whatever it is, the first thing you’re going to look at is what’s the price, and you’re going to constrain what you want, based on what the price is. And as you’re designing your career, as you’re designing your next job, you really want to deliberately take the constraints off. Because if you constrain it based on what you think is possible, based on what you’ve done before, based on what you’ve seen, other people do based on your education, based on the people, you know, based on what people are going to think about it, there’s so many different ways we constrain ourselves. And you want to deliberately remove the constraints, at least for a moment, and be willing to tolerate the discomfort of that in order to figure out what you really want to do. And I’ll give you just a simple example of that, which is I was talking to a client about career choices and where he wanted to go. And he was kind of at a crossroads in his career, which was even within the same company to stay safe and secure what he’s done before but without a lot of opportunity, or to go into a new group, which was high risk because they were building a new product, which either would or would not work. And if he went all in on that, he would lead it. So it was a very entrepreneurial role within this company. But if it didn’t work, then who knows what’s going to happen? So high risk or safety? And so we were talking about that decision. And I said, Well, hey, think really unconstrained and as you’re thinking unconstrained, like really unconstrained. He said, Wait, how unconstrained are you talking about like, Could I imagine I make a million dollars a year working two hours a week? And I said, Well, I know there are people in the world who do that. So why not you? If that’s really something that speaks to you, why couldn’t that be you? And so that was an example of this guy deliberately picking something he thought was kind of crazy. It’s like, well, you may think it’s crazy, but it happens. So rather than label it as crazy and rule it out, see if you can expand your sense of what’s possible for you into something that really speaks to you. And so this idea of being unconstrained in what is possible for you is a really powerful one.


Well, Disney, if you can dream it, you can be it. And I like the example you gave us there are a couple of examples. And there was really good because I think that thinking about where we apply financial constraints is a very tangible daily activity that helps you stop and go, Wait, what if I, what if I loosen that up? Now that said financial peace could be a hard thing to restrain. However, your own potential or the possibilities that you can create in life is not doesn’t have as tangible as a commodity attached to it. And so that’s where I think you can push boundaries a little bit more and really think about it; I think about risk as maybe one of those constraints as kind of like it’s still intangible, but it’s a commodity, it’s kind of in a way that comes in and puts restraints on us. Because we’re like, oh, well, I could never do that. Because of XYZ, I have too much responsibility. I have a house; I have a job or golden handcuffs or whatever it is. And if you can, just stop. And I almost think my way of thinking about this is to think about what could happen instead of what could happen. Yeah, we oftentimes think about the like, if you really want to work through the worst-case scenario of rusty saying in 2019, I am going to leave Apple after 15 years, and I’m going to go start a business. What is the worst thing that happens? Right? Especially because you’re starting a business that is not high overhead, high startup costs, and financial risk are fairly low. The worst-case scenario is it falls flat on its face, and you just go get another job. And in that, quote, unquote, failure you learn. So like, really, if you can stop and get perspective and take away those self-imposed self-limiting beliefs that we apply, and start to look at the reality of the situation and really like what the upside is versus the real downside, that we tend to create doomsday scenarios around. It all becomes a lot more feasible. Yeah, I mean, so a couple of things that just make me think of it. Number one is, I sometimes ask people, do you think you have a good imagination? And oftentimes adults, you know, sometimes some people say yes, but oftentimes adults say No, not really. It’s like, you know, I’m not that imaginative. But when you present a city ration like that, people’s imagination is great at imagining all the ways it could blow up in their face and be really problematic. So we’re really good at imagining bad things. We’re just not good at imagining good things. So take that same capability and redirect it towards How good could it be? And how well could it turn out? If you were to take this action and make this choice? You will be so surprised how often I’ll say to somebody who maybe they want to change careers, or maybe they just don’t love their job. And I’ll say, Well, if you could really go have the job you would you wish you could have? Or you could do anything you wanted to do, or what did you want to be when you were a little kid, the number of times that ends up becoming a small, or maybe a significant element of career planning or a future possibility? Simply because someone outside of themselves gave them the permission and a perspective to think about how that could apply to reality in a different way is amazing. And that’s what you and I are both kind of encouraging everybody to do. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And the other thing I’ll say is that most people tend to discount the cost of inaction. Right? So we tend to think about the cost of taking action, like, what if I take this action, it doesn’t go? Well, we focus on that. But we don’t focus on what is it costing us not to take action because there’s a cost to that. It’s, you know, it that could be a financial cost, it could be an emotional cost, it could be just a cost of your overall satisfaction and vigor and energy and an engagement with life. And in the end, that’s what life is. So you know, it’s worth looking at what is the cost of not doing anything. Oh, not doing anything is a conscious choice. FYI, newsflash sits on that one for a second; everybody not doing something is a conscious choice. And this is a great, great, great idea if you even let’s go back to the financial example, the time value of money. Let’s say Rusty, and I am going to coin a new term today time value of the action. Because if you think about it, I’ve been hearing a lot lately about those, those surveys where they’ll say, Hey, you could have $5 now, or you can have $10 in a week, and the majority of people will take $5. Now, however, think about if you’d waited seven days, you just doubled your money. This is kind of this, this is that’s kind of a rudimentary example of what we’re talking about here where inactivity today could cost you a whole lot of potential down the road if you were willing to give it a shot. Yeah, and maybe that’s a good segue into this to the third point, which is taking 100% responsibility. It’s so easy for people to say, well, it’s not the right time, or my kids are young, or I’ve got a difficult boss, or I don’t have enough money saved, or we just bought a house, or you know, there’s, there’s always a reason why not to do something. And it’s always easy to point outside to point out all of those things, all of those factors, all those situations in life, and no one is going to change something for you. Like, no one’s going to swoop in and make your life better, no one’s going to swoop in and say, Oh, Angie, here’s this wonderful opportunity for you, this new job that’s going to satisfy all of the things that you want, you can sit around and wait for that, and maybe you’ll get lucky. But the real solution, the real answer, the real progress comes from taking 100% responsibility for everything in your life. If that means you have a bad boss, take responsibility for that; what are you going to do to change the dynamic with your boss and you know, that could include a conversation with your boss up to it include, including leaving, right? It could mean finding another job, but you have to take responsibility because nothing changes until you do. I wish you could all see me. I’m like, I feel like I’m busting at the seams over here because you’re like hitting all these hot points. But if this is ,you are 100% responsible for where you are in life, and we are really, really good, just like we’re good at looking at doomsday scenarios and creating that negative outcome around possibilities. We’re also very, very good at playing the victim versus how can I A few times on the podcast, somebody has said the following, which instead of looking at why is this happening to me, why is this happening for me and turning that around? Maybe having a bad boss is the you know, powers that be telling you it’s time to go get another job and not just sitting on your hands hoping he’s magically going to go to sensitivity training one day, right? And I also you, the first thing you said is something I feel like I’ve been a broken record on lately, and that is there is no perfect time to do the thing. Whether it is changing jobs, starting a business, or whatever the thing is that you want to do, there is never a perfect time to do it. There will always be factors, external or internal, that impact that decision-making and you are responsible for the fact that you’ve got to make that decision regardless of whatever imperfect factors are at play. Yeah.


I mean that I love the tree-like, or sorry, the little anecdote, which is the best time to plant a tree for shade your backyard was 20 years ago, and the next best time is today. So if you haven’t taken the action, take the action. Absolutely. Yeah, I just think that it’s


Oh, I know what I was gonna say. I was thinking about a story about a couple of different stories of people who I’ve worked with in the past, who have said things like, Well, I’ve always had difficult bosses, my whole career, I’ve always had difficult bosses. And the thing that’s so interesting to me about that is that, as you were saying earlier, it’s like, well, that sounds like a victim kind of mindset, like, this always happens to me, you know, it’s like I always end up in these positions where my boss is difficult. And the question that always comes to mind, and not everyone’s ready to hear this question, but this is the 100% responsibility question, which is like, how are you a part of that equation? You’re the common denominator in all of that, let’s say, yeah, it doesn’t mean you’re the whole equation, but you’re still the common denominator. And you and I are both engineers who like math and know what that means. But that’s where you have to be honest with yourself. Yeah. Yeah. And I’ll say some people are not ready to hear that. But I’m hoping for the listeners out there. You just look at your life and look at those places where it’s like, yeah, this keeps happening, or I’m stuck in this way. Or I don’t like this aspect, right? So it’s willing to take 100% responsibility and say, Okay, I don’t like this thing. But if it’s going to change, it’s going to be me who’s going to change it. Be willing to think about that from an unconstrained standpoint rather than like, Hey, what is an incremental step that’s going to be a little bit better than this? Think unconstrained, like; what is total success look like? What if you flip that from something that’s unsatisfying to something that you love in your life? What would it look like to be there and then be willing to be uncomfortable enough in that process to say, Okay, it’s gonna be uncomfortable because it’s new, it’s different, it’s a change? But if you’re willing to be uncomfortable, and tolerate that, and take some action towards it, now you’re starting to actually make progress. And that’s the way you create change in your life. You just set me up so perfectly because we’re going to start talking about actions. Because, you know, one of the other things I think is interesting about engineers who become entrepreneurs is because we have the like, practical, logical, algorithmic way of thinking, we also tend to route our approach to entrepreneurship in a very, like, practical outcomes-based action way. So you and I both love action. So let’s start, let’s give everybody , let’s say, practical tools, or resources or ideas on how we can lean into these. So just to recap, I tossed my whole show flow, and rusty, he made it for me; this is the best kind of guest. So what we’ve talked about is one getting if you don’t like where you’re at, you want more, you know, there’s more, and you just feel a little trapped, get uncomfortable. Think about life without constraints. Think about the possibilities and take accountability and responsibility for your situation and the fact that you have a choice. So if that’s our kind of, let’s say, a mindset that we want to wrap our heads around, how do we start taking action towards that? What are some practical steps, tools, or things that we can do?


Yeah, so in my book that you mentioned in the intro, breaking the code, and I’ll just briefly about the name of the book, breaking the code is the idea that we’ve all been programmed, right? We have a habitual way of thinking and looking at the world. And it’s like, you’ve been programmed. And so it’s like, the program is like your code, and you operate according to the code. And if you want to break, make a change, you’ve got to break the code and step out of that. So one of the ways I give to do that is this place, this idea of the zone of possibility. And you want to get into the zone of possibility. And there are three elements to that. Number one is quiet; you need to step away from the noise of your life. And that’s the external noise, your phone, your computer, your family, all of the things that come at you. So you need to step away from that, but it’s also the internal noise, right? So step away from your desk, step away from your house, go outside for a walk, you know, sit under a tree somewhere in a park, but step away. So that’s the idea of quiet. The second idea, that’s the element that you need for this zone of possibility, is heart. Many of us, engineers especially, are very intellectual kind of people. Thinkers, right? So but oftentimes, the answer to this, like, what is it that that makes? What is it that you really want? That’s not an intellectual kind of question. That’s a heart kind of question. The example I give is like going into a restaurant and asking for a nutritional analysis of everything on the menu because you’re going to analyze the nutritional content and then, based on that, pick what you’re going to eat like nobody does that. Right. That would be an intellectual approach to choosing something in a restaurant. Don’t try to take the intellectual approach to figure out what’s next step in your job in your career. Take the heart-based approach. What are you hungry for? What do you want?


And then the third element is courage. Right? We’ve talked a little bit about this idea of tolerating discomfort. You mentioned courage in the intro. Courage is a willingness to say, a willingness to be uncomfortable, a willingness to face something that creates a little bit of fear and discomfort, and say that’s the right direction rather than the wrong direction. So find a place of quiet, listen to your heart, and have the courage to actually listen to what you have, what it’s saying to you. And those three elements are the key that puts you in the zone of possibility to get some ideas. Well, and I want to dive into the head, the heart piece for a second because I think that’s really pivotal. Because to me, it goes back to the third thing we were talking about, about that kind of like responsibility and accountability, and also even get on to the unconstrained piece, because I think we get that when you hear people say to get out of your head. To me, that’s what it means is that we’re, like, overanalyzing analysis. paralysis is, like, a big thing in society now. And so, like, allowing your intuition to guide you and allowing it to have a voice. And so I feel like if you think of it that way, and then you give yourself that environment of a, you know, a little bit of a courageous, you know, the less limited mindset in that quiet space where you can get all those things to connect, that can be really powerful. It’s funny, I’m a huge outwear huge adventurer; outdoor people are mountain folk. And years ago, when I first started career benders, I literally went down to the river; I set up like an old school before phones had a 14-megapixel camera on them. And I did this little video about why you should get outside to consider what your goals and the possibilities are in your environment can be hugely impactful to that. And I also want to bring in the practical piece of kind of like journaling and putting pen to paper as a way to get this out of your head as you as you listen to your gut and your heart more than your head. Absolutely. And I’ll actually offer I’ve got a little worksheet that helps you walk through this process. So I will offer that to anyone listening and just as a free gift. And so we can figure out how to get that in the show notes or put a link there. So well, put it on the show notes. Absolutely. What I think is interesting, and I’m wondering if you’re similar, because of that kind of logical brain that comes into play as a former engineer, is I am not fit. I’m not fantastic at blank pages. And that could be a literal blank page, or a figurative blank page of like, okay, I’m gonna go think about and envision my future. And I’m like; there’s nothing in there right now. So I find prompts to be super helpful to really get the juices flowing. And that’s what it sounds like this is, yeah, this is not directly related. But it’s connected to what we’ve been talking about here, which is,


I want to introduce two ideas. One is this idea that if you look back on your life, for all of us, who are here listening to this podcast, if you’re here listening to this podcast, you have made it, you have landed on your feet, all of the junk that’s happened in your life, all the difficult situations, all the challenges, all the obstacles that have shown up in your path, you have managed to navigate them in some way or another, and you’re here. And if you can take that belief, and I’ll even use the word faith and not in a religious sense, but like faith in the sense that it’s going to work out for you. And if you can bring that faith forward and bring that into the future, as well as recognizing it in the past, that can be a huge asset to you as you contemplate taking these next steps. Because they are uncomfortable, you’re gonna go for something you’ve never done before, whether that’s going for a promotion, or going having a conversation with your boss leaving and becoming an entrepreneur; whatever direction it is, have that faith that it’s going to work out, you may not know exactly how it’s going to work out, but you’re going to land on your feet, you’re going to be okay. And if you can rest in that. And by the way, nature, I think, is a great way to bring out that sense of possibility and that faith and belief that life moves on and everything is okay.


That’s really going to serve you in this process. Well, and if you just look at it, even if we go practical back to practice for a second, it always has worked out. Yep. Right. And we’re so good at getting those scenarios and overanalyzing things and all the bad that can happen. We convince ourselves it, therefore won’t work out even though history tells us every single time it has, and even if you don’t know exactly in the moment how it’s gonna work out or even sometimes it takes a couple of years to be able to say, Oh, now I know what that was setting me up for. You have that faith and trust Napoleon Hill that it will work out in the long run and and while we’re, you know, what’s funny is we’re talking about a lot of kind of mindset stuff which can seem woowoo


Due to some people, but we talk we’re talking about in a really practical way because you have to practically have a mindset and a hopefulness. To be able to even envision a future gets uncomfortable to lean into it. Think about a scenario where there’s less boundaries, and get honest with yourself to take action on it. Yeah. And I want to just pull another example out of my book here, which is, you know, again, breaking the code; it’s kind of built on this analogy of thinking about your phone, right, your phone, you’ve got an operating system on your phone, and then you install apps, what you care about is the apps because that’s what allows you to take pictures and contact people and do social media, browse the internet, whatever. But your operating system was what decided, will this app be able to work. You’ve all had the experience, you put an app on, and the little dialog comes up, it says do you want to give this app access to your location, to your camera, to your contacts, all this kind of stuff? And you can say no, and that limits the capability of the app and some pace points; the app is totally useless. Well, think about installing an app into your life; write an app might be another job where you get paid twice as much, or where you’re working fewer hours, or starting a new job, or becoming an entrepreneur; those are apps that you want to put in your life. And the mindset is like your operating system. And if your operating systems like Nope, that won’t work. Nope, can’t do that don’t have access to that. No, that’s not possible. Well, the app is not going to work. So what we’re talking about is this idea of mindset; it’s like it’s a really practical thing. And you think you can see it on your phone, you’re like, Yeah, I’ve had that experience, I know how that works. Well, it’s exactly the same way it works in your life. And so what we’re talking about is changing your operating system, breaking the code, to use the name of my book, to allow yourself to put apps in of things that you actually want to do in your life, rather than things that you think you have to do or things you’ve done in the past, or things that seem compatible with what you’re capable of break through that, and allow yourself to install new apps. I love the Apple guy; just use the app example. It’s so it’s actually so perfect. And even I’ll go one step nerdier, that I love that I actually wrote a note in here, and you already said it, which was, I love that kind of double meaning of breaking the code. Because it’s, it’s like it’s so perfect also for your background. But there are these people at Apple and every tech company on the planet called quality or test engineers. And literally, their job is to break the code and see what happens when they get the 500 or the 400 error so that the technology can then continue improving itself. So what this is all about is go break your own code, go test yourself, and push yourself to the boundary to break your own code. It’s so perfect. I love it. Yeah, yeah. And so let’s go bring you back to the practical I mean, we talked about the zone of possibility getting outside; I mentioned the worksheet that we’d offer and put in the show notes to help you kind of think about an unconstrained version of your future. The other thing I want to put out there is, you know, this famous quote from Jim Rohn, which is you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And to really be thoughtful about who in your world thinks like this, the way we’re talking about things from the sense of possibility rather than from a sense of constrained things from the sense of faith that you’re you’re going to land on your feet, that you’re going to be okay, even if you can’t predict exactly how that you’re going to be okay, that supports you and helps you think in that perspective. Because, honestly, you know, there used to be, you know, 50 100 years ago, there used to be a much more cohesive sense of community and involvement, whether that was civic organizations, or religious institutions or, you know, different ways that people were plugged into society. And now, a lot of that has kind of become more limited to work, home, and social media. And so, go out and think about where I can find an environment that supports me in thinking this way, because you said earlier, Angie like our environment has a huge influence on what we think about. And it’s totally true. Like, if I want to do something creative, I don’t sit at my desk because when I’m sitting at my desk, it’s much more about getting stuff done. But if I want to be creative, I go somewhere else. And it’s the same idea if you want to be creative, and be supported in this pursuit of an unconstrained 100%, responsible, and somewhat uncomfortable journey, find an environment find people find a community that is thinking in the same way that can support you. And I just want to tie that into CrossFit. Because CrossFit is kind of the same thing in the physical realm. To find the same thing for you in the work or career realm. I love that. That’s so good. Abundance versus scarcity mindset is another term for kind of this idea of constrained versus Doomsday, but it is amazing what happens when you surround yourself with people, and it’s not like you’re just magically going to drop into a meet-up event and find you know,


All of the four that are missing in your life, but over if you’re intentional about who you spend your time within seeking the people you spend your time with, it will come in. And to tie this back to the book. If you it’s a great place to start. You get rusty and pages, right? Surround yourself with Rusty’s books. So as we could because this has been, I think this is a good point, I want to I want this to be a five-hour podcast because there are so many different things we could talk about. So let’s kind of start spinning towards like wrapping up and telling everybody how we find you. How do they get the book? We’re going to share all of this at no more Monday’s dot info, but give, give yourself a shout-out, and tell us how we follow along and all your wisdom. Yeah, so the best place to connect with me as my website is Rusty gaillard.com. And there’ll be a link for that in the show notes. The book is on Amazon; it’s both you can order it, you can read it on Kindle, and you can get an audiobook; it’s breaking the code. And if you search for breaking the code rusty, because there are a few books by that name, it’ll come up. And I’m also on LinkedIn regularly. So happy to connect with and engage with anybody on LinkedIn. And I’d love to hear from you. So if you listen to this, drop me a note and let me know what resonated with you and what you’re gonna do. And I’d be happy to share additional tools and resources with you. And Rusty is a new member of my LinkedIn community; he and I will fill up your newsfeed. So follow us on LinkedIn. And you know, when he and I say things like connect with us, reach out, give us feedback, tell us how we help you, we actually mean it. Because this is why we do what we do. And it’s helpful to know, like when somebody says I listened to your podcast, without even knowing which episode it was, or what they got out of it, I’m immediately like, Oh, thank you, right? So we really mean it when we say reach out because there’s a reason that we spend our time doing the things we do. And please let the madness in our heads go somewhere. Yeah, absolutely. Somewhere useful and tied into this idea of community, right? That’s a way of starting to build community; right is? Is talk to Andy, talk to me, connect with us, you know, start a conversation. That’s, you want to have connections with people who think this way that’s gonna help you. And, you know, even if you just start with, Hey, this is where I’m at, I want to connect with the community, people like us, or the people that you go and reach out to will get you plugged in as well. So I think another, let’s add, I don’t know if it’s a fourth or a seventh tip to all of this. You don’t have to do this alone, everyone. And whether it’s a downloadable resource, a book, a virtual community of the right people, or a physical community of the right people or your family, engaging others in your development and growth and goals and vision for life, makes it a whole lot more possible and a lot more fun and a lot less daunting. Yeah, and I just want to put a plug-in for the value an good coach. Because a good coach brings you three things. They bring you structure. They bring you stimulation of new ideas and different ways of thinking, and different perspectives. Hopefully, you got some of that today in this podcast. And they give you support, right, someone who’s there supporting you in taking the next steps. So if you find a good coach who can bring you those structure, stimulation, and support that makes a huge impact in helping him over, I know it has for me. And I don’t say this because I am a coach. I say this because I’ve had good coaches. And those are the things they bring to me and help me to move forward. That was a great commercial for us. RST, even if I agree with you. Once you experience coaching, that all kind of makes sense. So again, don’t do it alone. And let’s top off all of the advice that’s floating around this this episode with kind of one more pearl of wisdom. What is your number one piece of advice on what everybody out there can do to get one step closer to a career in life satisfaction?


I’m going to start with go spend 20 minutes by yourself outside with a pen and paper. Give yourself that quiet; listen to your heart. Give yourself some courage just to say I’m going to set aside all the reasons why it’s not possible just for these 20 minutes. It doesn’t have to be forever. Just give yourself a 20-minute window of thinking broadly from a sense of possibility. And right now, you’re finishing this podcast, think of a date and think of a time when you’re going to do that. Don’t leave it like Oh yeah, that sounds great. I’m going to do that. No, give yourself like, hey, this Saturday at right after lunch, I’m gonna go do this. I’m gonna block out 20 minutes to 30 minutes; I’m gonna go sit outside with a pen and paper and do it. Give yourself a specific time and date and go out and write it down. Make a date for yourself. Here’s an extra challenge. Not don’t just do that once. Do it every day for month, and you’ll be blown away by what happens


Then you’ll be calling us left and right. I have all these visions and goals, and I need help, right? So give us give yourself respect enough to give yourself the time to dream and envision a little is is, I think, a great way to wrap up an awesome episode resi Gaillard; thank you so much for being part of this podcast and joining the no more Mondays movement. This has been an excellent conversation, and I have a feeling there’s going to be more from us in the future because we’ve got a lot of shared perspectives, and you give great practical, but also practical mindset advice on how everybody out there can work more towards that level up or whatever is next. So I appreciate you being here and giving everybody your time. This has been awesome. Oh, it’s a lot of fun. Thanks, Angie. We always love hearing from people who have successfully navigated their own career crossroads and charted a path to success. It’s a bonus when it’s somebody helps somebody who helps others do the same, like Rusty. There is awesome advice here. So I hope all of you took some notes, and we’ll make that date in your calendar to go out and take more notes. And for all of you listening, if you would like the tools and resources we talked about in the episode, including the worksheets, head on over to no more Mondays dot info, where you can grab show notes, leave comments, feedback, or drop a guest suggestion which we would love to hear from you. And until next time, I will see you on Wednesday next week for another episode of no more Mondays podcast. Thanks for joining us for another episode of no more Mondays. Tune in next week as we bring you more insights and actions to help you improve your life and career. Don’t forget, visit us online at no more Mondays dot info to get all the details show notes and recommendations from this episode. No more Mondays; we dropped new episodes every Wednesday. No more. Monday’s is brought to you by career benders, Inc, in partnership with executive producer Jane Durkee. For more information about career coaching, resume writing, personal branding, recruiting, and entrepreneurship coaching services, visit us online at careerbenders.com